2005 40 PC transmission removal


N

nsgy11

New member
Got this new to me 2005 40 PC from Green Bay, Wisconsin last month. I don't wish to go into details of how upset I am with the Formula dealer in Green Bay but my port transmission quit when I launched in New Jersey. I had noted a slow shaft spin in neutral (at sea trial) in the port shaft but the vessel ran well for an hour or so. Transmission Fluid had normal color and not burnt smelling. The diesel surveyor and Marina service manager assured me that this was not a problem. ZF 80 IV drives and transmission cable works well.
The other possibility is that on the run back into my marina - about 10 miles- i wrapped a line around the shaft that fell off. I felt a sudden shudder when the transmission failed but no sound of impact. Had a diver check the prop which was okay. Now the transmission gets stuck in reverse or forward (usually reverse)and does not disengage.
I need advice from someone who has gone through this repair before. Does the engine hatch require removal? The vessel has to come out of the water to back out the shaft but does the engine have to be taken out as well. Mack Boring can rebuild the transmission - should I go with a brand new one or is a rebuilt transmission okay?
Now using my beautiful Formula as a home on the water- for a few weeks at least till I get the fix sorted out.
Would really appreciate advice from someone who has gone through this ordeal before.
 
I myself would have someone troubleshoot the trans in the boat to find out what is going on. It may just be a cable issue.
If the trans needs to come out, I would pull the boat. The shaft has to be moved back, and the chances are minimal, but I would not take that chance of sinking her. Others may disagree, but I like to stay on the safe side.
 
i'd agree with gsent here. the trans should be diagnosed properly first. i don't really know that a slow shaft spin at idle would be considered an issue, i see this on lots of inboard boats. the shaft can be slid back and the transmission removed while the boat is in the water, but i'd also agree that hauling it would be safer. do your due diligence as far as rebuilt versus new if you end up going that route. read reviews and consider warranties, etc. you could also look into the option of sending your unit in for repair, i'm sure there are places that do that sort of thing. a quick bit of research suggests the shifting valve may be your issue but i think a good diagnosis is where you need to start. i for one would be interested in where this goes, although i don't have the same model number v-drives, they are the same make.
 
Something similar happened to my uncle's SeaRay. Transmission stuck in forward. After checking cables and controls, they ended up replacing with a new transmission. This fixed the issue. The weird thing was the marina said the transmission looked perfect upon inspection and they had no idea what was wrong. I would recommend having it looked at by a ZF authorized technician. This is probably something the average marina doesn't see on a regular basis and you don't want to spend the time or hourly rate on having someone poke around in there without a clear plan.
 
nsgy11
Sorry to hear but this sounds all to familiar to me. Lost my port trans 4 years ago with the exact same symptoms with 500 hrs. I had just finished a 180 mile trip down the coast. When I came down the aisle in the marina and went to spin the boat I could not control it. Needless to say port trans was turning in reverse when in neutral and engine would stall when I put it in forward. If you think about it your 2 props are turning in opposite directions. Your port trans is turning in reverse when you are going forward. Your not the first or last to have this problem. Your clutch plates are probably shattered lick chicklets. Yanmar ZF have solved this problem with some kind of torque converter. Reggie Fountain also blew a trans. I had priced a rebuild with ZF at about $6000. Mack boring had 5 of these brand new trans on a shelf and was happy sell it to me for half the price because they don't use it any more. Maybe they still have some. When I broke down I was at Huckins boat builders in Fl. Very competent yard. It was easier for them to remove the whole rear hatch haul the boat and crane the whole engine and tranny at one time.
 
Many thanks for all your posts. I had the tech from Mack Boring look at the trans and we did a sea trial and he felt that problem was inside the trans and not in the shift control. He could replace the control with boat in the water - about 1K but if it did not fix the issue I would be still looking at removal and rebuild. Oil cooler will need replacement.
Took my boat yesterday for a spin, and boy did it spin. When engine and trans is cool the unit engages and works for maybe 15 to 20 mins - then the shaft quits rotating or gets stuck in reverse. I hear no grinding or clatter and I think the gears are okay.
Could this be a hydraulic pump issue not generating adequate pressure?
In any case, the boat is scheduled for haul out, hatch removal and maybe engine removal. The tech form Mack Boring is a really good guy and he specializes in rebuilds. My mechanic, who I have had a long relationship with, feels that removing entire engine is actually easier and quicker.
Regards shaft spin at idle- I think it is the first sign of serious problems. I researched this on the internet and there are all sorts of conflicting opinions.
Spoke to Formula - their engineer said that hatch should come off and Trans can be removed without having to take engine out. Shaft will need to be backed out 12 inches.
Will keep you posted re progress and how job was done and send pics of actual damage in the unit. Question remains new vs rebuild? A 3K difference in cost but at this point, but given the difficulty with removal and install, I am leaning towards getting a new unit.
NSGY11
 
what is the difference in warranty between new and rebuilt? Also is the new trans an updated unit meaning new revision and fixed old design issues? if going new keep the old unit for parts or sell to salave co to recoup a few dollars. Or you could always have the old unit rebuilt in the off season or when they are slow looking for work to do, Can always save money that way. good luck with what ever way you choose.
 
New unit warranty is 2 years for non commercial vessels. Cost $6500. I am estimating rebuild at $ 1500 just to open the Transmission and take a look and perform minor repairs. Whole repair could be more expensive depending on parts required. I am hoping it is just a plate. Have to add cost of labor and a new cooler. Total estimate around 6 -8K. Really appreciate all the advice. No trip to Alaska this year.
 
Gotta love them diesels when they are running well. Unfortunately when they break down very expensive to fix. How many hours on your engines NSGY? I also did put in a new trans oil cooler. I assumed you checked to see if MB had any more of the original trans.
 
My 40 PC is being hauled out tomorrow to change port transmission. Have decided that engine hatch has to come off and probably engine as well - hope mechanic is careful with hydraulic transom lift electrical connections. Mack Boring will open up the transmission and inspect the interior and recommend whether I need a new unit or a rebuild. Real bummer and good boating days are slipping by. Just like going for major surgery.
 
I feel your pain been there done that Pulling the motor is really the best way to go How many hours were on your transmission
 
Wow! Transmission is out and off to re-build. I will post pictures but the mechanic had some doubts as to how to go about it. It took less than 1 day with two people working. Hatch did not require removal but after disconnecting hatch lift, the hatch could be swung back all the way to open up the engine compartment. The engine and transmission lifted out in one piece and is now on a rack. Required disconnection of intake hose, electric harness and removal of exhaust pipe, and transmission oil cooler. Went off much quicker than expected. Shaft was backed out about a foot or less. Prop had to be removed.
Question is what can I do with the engine (now on a rack) in terms of maintenance, given that engine appeared to be working well. Does it pay to clean out both ends of the heat exchanger? Any thoughts would be really appreciated. I will give the bilge a real good cleaning of course.
 
Depending on hours and conditions heat exchanger yanmar recommendation I believe is 2000 hours. Impeller but as you probably know port is the easy side in or out of the boat. Zincs bottom exchanger would be very easy to get to and you can actually see it.
 
I would pull the cap off the heat exchanger and if the tubes look like they are starting to clog you can slide out the core and have a radiator shop clean it up. I did mine while it was in the boat but it would have been nice on if it was on a stand.
 
Mack Boring took the Transmission apart -I need a new unit. It appears some of the ZF 80 series had problems with premature wear and the tech told me that this unit is too expensive to rebuild. The ZF 80 has been replaced with ZF 85 series. Thanks for your posts - I will open up heat exchangers to clean out the intake. Engine has 285 hours fresh water use only and was running at 180 degrees F. There is some kind of harmonic plate/damper that was failing in these transmission units.
Do the dripless shaft seal require adjustment when shaft goes back into place? Impellers and zincs are new.
Thanks for your posts.
 

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looks like now would be a good time for a good bilge scrubbing and perhaps the easier access to the other engine would warrant some maintenance too. how long is it going to take them to get you going? and yes, the dripless seal will have to be readjusted for the correct tension.
 
Just
Wondering after reading your post on the wear on your model
of transmission what are you considering for the other side?
 
I am changing the transmission oil cooler on the opposite side. Not much more to do - if it ain't broke don't fix it! Will look into shaft seal.
Used my boat in our marina on the Navesink River in New Jersey for 1 month and it was a pleasure sleeping in and barbecuing on the dock, stowing away on friends' boats for short trips. Don't really need engines for that. Thanks all for the advice.
 
On a 40 PC, transmission came out with engine - no need to remove hatch. Removal was quick. Bad news is that cost of transmission rebuild did not make sense and i went for a new unit ZF 85 IV, which replaces the ZF 80. Apparently ZF 80 IV had some issues with the harmonic damper. You can see the cracked clutch plate and burnt out shaft. Hopefully in the water next week. I am replacing both transmission oil coolers and the metal filter in the good Starboard transmission.
Question is whether this is due to underwater collision - I felt a sudden shudder at 24 KTS on way into marina. River is relatively shallow but I came a high tide - depth 6 - 8 ft. After Sandy, who knows what is in the water. Props and shaft appear OK but I have not taken boat out at WOT.
Dealer who sold me the boat says that it had no problems. I have complete repair records from 2006.
NSGY 11
 

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