Transom Rot - 2007 260BR


S

Sanmiam

Member
Just heard back from my shop, and my entire transom assembly is rot. I never considered the possibility that a transom would be toast on a boat this new. In fact - this is one of the reasons that I wanted a Formula as I have read numerous time that the way in which formula seals their transom assembly makes it nearly impossible for such an occurrence. Obviously not the case.

The issue has been ongoing for several years per my glass guy, who coincidentally used to work for Formula in that capacity around the era when this boat was constructed. I did what any consumer would do, I reached out to the manufacturer asking for assistance since the issue has quite obviously been ongoing within the initial warranty period for the hull. This is the response I received:

The structural warranty covers The hull and deck structural elements, stringers, bulkheads, fiberglass grid and matrix system. Unfortunately it does not cover failed seals that cause damage.
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That's fine on the surface, except taking this stance pretty much eliminates Formula's liability for 99.9% of the issues that may result from a product designed to be on the water. If faulty installation of the drive assembly (over/under torque, mis-aligned seal, etc etc) were to be root cause, they can wash their hands for the SIGNIFICANT damage that may occur as a result. At absolute minimum I would have expected a conversation on the topic rather than a one sentence reply via email to the issue.

While I did not buy the boat new, I did purchase what I thought to be a premium product on the secondary market (yes, it was surveyed) from a premium brand. A rotten transom within 11 or so years from the initial launch of ANY boat is not what I would expect from a "premium" product, especially when there are no signs of apparent abuse. Given the scarcity with which this seems to occur, it would be reasonable to assume it stemmed from the manufacturer rather than an act of God.

To be clear, in no way did I expect Formula to pay to replace my transom. I did finally touch base with a regional manager after several messages (no return calls), but the end result was a hard stance that Formula would wash their hands of this. At minimum a concession greater than "we can't predict everything that could happen to a boat over the years" would have been appreciated. I see stories here and elsewhere about the fantastic customer service afforded to Formula boat owners, something I have been privy to first hand. However, it seems that when it comes time to REALLY stand behind their product Formula is simply unwilling to do so. In fact, it was iterated numerous times that "should this have been identified within the first couple of years of ownership MABYE there is something we could have done." Reading between the lines - even on a new boat, if you get water in the transom Formula will likely wash their hands of it.

Furthermore, there was not even a consideration towards requesting the location of the boat to conduct an investigation into the issue. No request to speak with my glass guy who could have identified the root cause. Nothing. If a brand stands behind their products, I would have expected more. If the end result of such investigation would have been the same, it would have at least showed a level of interest in betterment of the brand that I could stand behind. Nothing of this nature was suggested. I even offered contact information for the gentleman working on the boat should Formula want to investigate further and was met with dismissal.

To each member on this forum, I hope your ownership experience and dealings with Formula are less disappointing than my own.
 
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Sanmiam,
I am sorry to hear about your issues. Have you found out the root cause of the transom rot? I highly doubt that the factory did not prepare or seal the outdrive cutouts. Was there an issue with the drives leaking? Bellows? Could be many reasons. Someone could also have removed the transom assembly and not sealed it correctly. It could have hit an underwater object and cracked the fiberglass, etc. Why did the surveyor not find this issue? High moisture readings or sounding of the transom would have shown the water intrusion and warranted further investigation.
Just to let you know, this forum is not about dealer or factory bashing but to provide helpful information to anyone that may have questions or comments.
If this post starts to get out of hand, I will delete it. We appreciate your comments but please remember that Formula does stand behind their product and offers customer support second to none. There are many members that will disagree with you and will express their experiences. Please let us know what you find and ask for help or offer suggestions to others that may have similar experiences. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
 
GSENT - is issue was not a maintenance related item. Bellows were all replaced when I got the boat, bottom was sand blasted and verified for no structural issues. Per mechanic transom assembly did not appear to have been removed, nor do service records from previously servicing dealers have record of such. Prior to my ownership, boat was stored high and dry with limited usage (25 or so hours over a couple of years - apparently only a dozen or so days total), so lack of moisture in the transom @ survey would have been expected. As for the cause - I need to have further conversation with the individual completing the work as he was not clear on the exact reason. The one thing I can say w/o hesitation is it is not the fault of a maintenance item as I am particular enough to have all of that replaced prophylactically when I purchase a boat.

I understand the forum is a tool to express ownership experiences and lend helpful advice to others that own a Formula or plan to in the future. I also understand a great number of posts sing praise to Formula as a company, and their experiences would justify such praise. My post is not to "bash" Formula as a company, but rather outline my own experiences that may be contrary to popular opinion. As a great number of people (myself included) find this forum before purchasing a Formula, I feel that to censor my own experience would be a disservice to those in the position I was in a few short years ago. I attempted to make my posting as devoid of emotion as possible in order to allow others to form their own opinion of the situation. If there are portions that you feel are inflammatory please do not hesitate to PM me and I will adjust as needed.

I appreciate the heads up, and truly hope this post does not develop into something inappropriate for forum content.
 
Sanmiam - You indicated "Transom Assembly" . . . do you really mean "transom" as the Transom Assembly is often referred to as the mechanical mounting associated with the outdrive. I assume you mean transom.

I believe the structural warranty that applies to 2007 models is 10 years. Not surprising that Formula is not showing great interest in your plight. It is hard to say when the issue occurred, but fair to say that the boat lasted through a 10 year warranty period. The Technical Assistance Group (TAG) may be able to offer some guidance in the repairs, but if you approached Formula from a warranty claim perspective, then your disappointment is understood.

Without knowing the details of the circumstances of how the transom 'rotted', and when it started to rot, it is hard to say who/what contributed to it. Are you aware that the wood used in the transom is Perma-Panel and is supposed to be 'rot-free' ? Perhaps the transom is wet, but not rotted? I assume you bought this boat in/around 2018? Was there any indication of moisture in the survey report? If the transom is now 'entirely' rotted or wet, there should have been some evidence within the past few years. Also, I am wondering if there were any 'incidents' with the boat or modifications made that would contribute to a 'rot' or 'wet' situation?

Have you taken a look at the transom for yourself as to what the shop is saying, and that they are not being overly dramatic in their assessment? Was there a particular event or issue that prompted an investigation of the transom?

I have owned 2 Formulas, having bought them when they were 13-16 years of age. Each of them had structural moisture/rot issues that I needed to repair, which I did . . . in a 'DIY' fashion. I've also seen similar issues in other boats of decent brand reputation. Through the experience of repairing my boats, I would say that Formula boats have a more substantial structure than many boats and their materials and components used in the construction are better than many, but they are not entirely immune to issues such as moisture.

Anyway, do a bit more investigation (or share information) as to what 'the shop' is telling you, and go from there. Fixing a transom is quite a bit of work.
 
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Sanmiam,
Thanks for the reply and the respect you have for the forum. I understand that your maintenance records state different things and you are looking for possible root causes. Let us know what you find. I am sure many will chime in to give their opinions as to what would possibly be the issue. Was anything mounted to the transom like a depth finder sensor, etc? Was the high and dry storage outdoors or indoors?
 
I appreciate the feedback from both.

I have not personally seen the damage, and am awaiting pictures of such. Until then I have to rely on the word of the individual doing the work. Nothing was mounted to the transom, and no visible signs of stress, which I was able to inspect with great scrutiny after the boat bottom was blasted last year. Prior to that I noticed some water in the bilge, but chalked it up to rainwater that got past the cover. The boat was laid up for the entirety of the 2019 season, and a good part of the 2018 season. When I launched last year I had significant water intrusion through the base of the transom - which prompted immediate removal. Yes, I am just getting the transom serviced now from that realization. Per Formula the transom is "marine grade plywood", and while that treatment may be great, any wood left wet w/o ventilation will eventually rot, no matter what the treatment. This is not to say that Formula uses poor materials (many others use the same stuff), but just a simple fact of life.

Boat was purchased in 2017. Prior to that it was kept on the 2nd level of an indoor storage facility. No moisture noted on the survey.

To be clear, my disappointment is not so much in the fact the Formula denied any financial responsibility for the issue. Sure, the argument could be made and substantiated that the issue initiated during the warranty period, but even still I approached Formula now not then. My grievance centers more around the lack of general interest in my situation. As I want to adhere to my promise to avoid being unreasonably hostile towards the brand I will not elaborate more on the conversation, but suffice to say it was not what I would expect from a customer centric brand.
 
So in reality, you don’t know the entire history of this boat. Purchased in 2017 and only used a handful of hours by you. You discovered some intrusion last year and now addressing it.

If the prior owner had an issue and was able to cover it up or dry it out so it would pass a moisture test, you may have been had. Or a new problem developed and you have now discovered it. Just trying to get the facts straight.

Scour the forums and see how many Formulas have intrusion issues, you will not find too many. I think that is why you might be getting the cold shoulder from TAG. Formula deals with known issues very well beyond warranty periods. You will see that as well.

Although you are in a difficult spot right now, and I feel for you, make sure that you explore all of your options. This would be for diagnosis and repairs. Share you location so fellow members can offer advice on trusted shops. Get a few opinions too.

Good luck, hope we can help.

Dave
 
Shot in the dark but One place to check is where the drain plug attaches thru the hull. Should be a bronze fitting screwed from the outside and presumably bedded with some type of sealant at mfg. What I have noticed on my 260 is that fitting doesn?t protrude all the way thru to the inside. It goes in maybe 1-1/2? or so but the transom is thicker 2? possibly thicker. So when you stick your pinky finger in the hole you can feel the end of the fitting and the start of plywood. Now Ive never had the engine out or took a real close look but I always wonder when there?s occasional water in the bilge if it?s soaking in at that point. I imagine they seal it somehow but who knows.
Buying a 10+ year boat is caveat emptor period but I understand the disappointment factor. Stinks you have to deal with that.


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One other point of entry may be the 20+ screws mounting the trim tabs if it has them. Again factory likely sealed at mfg but that?s a lot of holes under water that are under stress....


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Still confused as too how this happened? You said you had water intrusion upon splashing the boat. What was the cause of the intrusion? (Shift boot, steering seal, bellows....)

Water in the bilge isn’t uncommon. On the 260?s the bathroom sink drains into the main bilge and is pumped out. I feel like there is something critical missing from the root cause. A transom doesn’t go from dry, ring tap passing to soft and rotted without a serious issue.

We have a ‘99 260 and there certainly are exposed transom wood in the drain and the drive cutouts, but nothing that every other manufacturer doesn’t have as well. Sucks to hear about this for sure.
 
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UPDATE (and clarification): The root cause was water intrusion from the lower bolts holding the transom assembly on. These in turn allowed water into the transom, froze, expanded the wood in the transom, and when thawed caused a gap between the transom and the transom assembly - allowing water to intrude into the bilge.

Engine is out, repair to be completed within the next week or two. Hopefully splash the week after memorial day. Still need to get down to the shore and bottom paint/replace zincs ahead of then.......
 
Jackthebear said:
Sounds like good news Sanmiam. Hope to see you at Tice's
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Good news until the bill comes due :)

Last year we were a partial towards Party Island just because of the ability to stop off @ The Boatyard and let the kids run around a bit.

That stated, I am hoping to reverse the trend this year as I miss Tices. Feel free to pull up (or nearby) if you see me there. Yellow bimini makes me pretty easy to spot in a crowd, and I will likely have an inflatable island off the stern.
 
The compressible foam gasket on the outer transom assembly failed for that to happen somehow - the studs are internal of that gasket. I wonder if the lower bolts loosened up for some reason to cause that?
 
Party Island is the one that can be seen from the bridge when you are coming onto the island. It is a sandbar just off of the ship bottom ramp.

I figured the failure was something to do with the seal of the transom assembly to the transom. Not sure what would have caused that seal to fail. I plan to inquire further, but it would seem an odd failure point - one that if the cause were end user would show other signs of damage.
 
When you find out that the former owner either grounded the boat or hit something with the OD, an impact can disturb the transom assembly. You may never know the real answer, but there can always be speculation as to what MAY have happened.

If I had to guess, either things were previously repaired incorrectly or never checked after some sort of work was performed. There is no way it left the factory like that and lasted this many years...

Dave
 
axapowell said:
When you find out that the former owner either grounded the boat or hit something with the OD, an impact can disturb the transom assembly. You may never know the real answer, but there can always be speculation as to what MAY have happened.

If I had to guess, either things were previously repaired incorrectly or never checked after some sort of work was performed. There is no way it left the factory like that and lasted this many years...

Dave
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Someone more knowledgeable than myself can correct me if I am wrong, but I find it unlikely that an impact sufficient to disturb the transom seal would not have further evidence of such event - at least some spidering in the gel coat. This was not the case.

The boat has less than 300hrs on it currently - I took possession with less than 200. It is highly likely that a good portion of its life was spent on the hard. I can confirm at least 1.5 seasons under my ownership, 2 under the POs, and based on the servicing records from the original owner, at least 3 before that. It is not completely out of the picture for this to have been an issue that it left the factory with, which has gradually been exacerbated until now. I'm not saying that is definitively the case, but just that it is not outside the realm of possibility. Even if it were the case, it could just be bad luck in a faulty seal, or it could be an assembly issue. Virtually no way to confirm.

The guy doing the work is pretty adamant that the transom assembly had not been removed previously.
 
Has anyone done a drive alignment check with a test bar?
If the transom assembly shifted even slightly due to an impact the test bar might not go in freely. Misaligned condition will be bad for coupler and u-joints on top of the water issues.


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PJ,
I am assuming you mean alignment tool. I never heard it called test bar before.
 
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